The post begins with a quotation from Reliance of the Traveller, Book O, Chapter 9. The post continues with a brief explanation of the quotes and an outline of the nature of Islam, with links to its foundation in scripture and tradition.
Carlisticeday's comment is reproduced here in block quote style & Ariel font; my responses to his points are interspersed in normal column width and Times Roman font. Unlike Akhter, Carlisticeday has written his own comment, I do not find any evidence of plagiarism in it.
CarlisticedayOrganized religions are fictional legal persons, governed by fallible men, who speak and act for them. Islam and Christianity have fundamental doctrines which define them and are codified in their respective canons of scripture. The doctrines of Islam, expressed in the Qur'an and exemplified in hadith are the subject of What You Need to Know About Islam.
Submitted on 2009/07/03 at 5:50pm
First of all, “Islam” doesn’t say or do anything – Muslims do. Ditto for Christianity.
Religions should be judged by their orthodox doctrines & practices, not by deviations therefrom. The Inquisition was a deviation from fundamental Christianity, not the standard.
Who in history made it a policy, indeed, a religious requirement to force people to believe as they believed or die horrible deaths by burning at the stake, torture, drowning, disembowelment and so on? Not Muslims, Christians.
Moe revealed the Qur'an piece by piece between 610 and 622. It contains obvious situational scripture and conflicting ayat which are resolved by the science of naskh. Later revelations abrogate[2:102,16:101] earlier revelations with which they conflict. Al-Baqarah was #87 in sequence of revelation.
In fact, the Qur’an explicitly forbids forced conversion, and it has been understood as such for centuries. Where is that in the Bible?
2:256. There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Tâghût and believes in Allâh, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allâh is All-Hearer, All-Knower.Surah Yunus was #51 in sequence of revelation.
10:99. And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed, all of them together. So, will you (O Muhammad ) then compel mankind, until they become believers.Surah Al-Anfal was #88 in sequence of revelation, therefore it is nasikh and 2:256 & 10:99 are mansukh: the more tolerant ayat have been abrogated.
8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do.Fight them until...and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone.... Allah told Moe to fight pagans until all resistance ceased and only Allah was worshiped. How did Moe interpret that?
Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Number 387:Ordered to fight until...then he is a Muslim... Got a clue yet? For the interminably recalcitrant, I offer confirmation from Shari'ah: Reliance of the Traveller, Book O, Chapter 9, Paragraph 9.
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah." Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked Anas bin Malik, "O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?" He replied, "Whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have."
Islamic scripture, tradition & jurisprudence form a congruent pattern; they confirm and reinforce each other. Unfortunately, the terminally recalcitrant are blind to that pattern. Can you perceive it? Unlike Moe, Jesus did neither preached nor practiced warfare. Instead, he taught his disciples to use persuasion.
The caliph fights all other peoples until they become Muslim (O: because they are not a people with a Book, nor honored as such, and are not permitted to settle with paying the poll tax (jizya) ) (n: though according to the Hanafi school, peoples of all other religions, even idol worshippers, are permitted to live under the protection of the Islamic state if they either become Muslim or agree to pay the poll tax, the sole exceptions to which are apostates from Islam and idol worshippers who are Arabs, neither of whom has any choice but becoming Muslim (al-Hidaya sharh Bidaya al-mubtadi' (y21), 6.48-49) ).
9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.Contrast that with the orders Moe gave to his generals in the field: Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4294.
9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
9:3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
9:4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
9:5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.
(King James Bible, Luke)
Let us examine Shari'ah to discover the freedoms and protections enjoyed by Christians under Islamic rule.
Prior to 1900, did Muslims living under Christian rule enjoy anything like the freedoms and protections of life and property that Christians did under Islamic rule in the Middle Ages? No, not by a long shot.
Such non-Muslim subjects are obliged to comply with Islamic rules that pertain to the safety and indemnity of life, reputation, and property. In addition, they:
-1- are penalized for committing adultery or theft, thought not for drunkenness;
-2- are distinguished from Muslims in dress, wearing a wide cloth belt (zunnar);
-3- are not greeted with "as-Salamu 'alaykum";
-4- must keep to the side of the street;
-5- may not build higher than or as high as the Muslims' buildings, though if they acquire a tall house, it is not razed;
-6- are forbidden to openly display wine or pork, (A: to ring church bells or display crosses,) recite the Torah or Evangel aloud, or make public display of their funerals and feastdays;
-7- and are forbidden to build new churches.
At-Taubah 29 commands Muslims to make war upon Jews, Christians & Zoroastrians until they are subjugated and submit to annual extortion.
Do the Christian (or Jewish) scriptures provide in any way for these protections? No, on the contrary. Does the Qur’an? Yes, in fact it does.
9:29. Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.At-Taubah 123 commands Muslims to fight the nearby Christians and treat them harshly.
9:123. O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allâh is with those who are the Al-Muttaqûn (the pious - see V.2:2).
Furthermore, if “Islam” is such a violent religion, tell me, who has been responsible for the most death, mayhem, oppression, suffering and injustice in history, Muslims or Christians? There is simply no comparison: all the deaths in wars by Islamic states don’t come close to the deaths in WWII alone – a war essentially precipitated by and led on both sides by Christians…and we haven’t even begun to talk about the colonial period.The wars of the 20th century were political and economic, not religious. Islam has a 1400 year track record, with 270 million victims.
Were the Conquistadors acting in accord with the teaching and example of Jesus Christ? Show me the Book, Chapter & Verse citations for Christ's commands to engage in conquest.
Who depopulated North America so that they could own it all themselves? Not Muslims, Christians. Who enslaved millions in Central and South America for profit, and forced them to convert, to boot? Same answer.
Who went around the world gobbling up everyone else’s resources and labor in the name of God and country? Who now refuses to take responsibility for any of the chaos, injustice and political unrest that has resulted from that?Islam! These maps illustrate Islam's spread by the sword.
Who supports the colonizer Zionist state at all costs and at the expense of the people who were displaced by it, and who refuses even to acknowledge the daily humiliation that state pours on those displaced people? Not Muslims, Christians.That assertion inverts history, justice & morality in excellent form. Jews & Christians were living in the Roman Province of Syria in the 7th century. Surah At-Taubah deals with the ghazwat against Tabuk, complaining of those Muslims who refused to join it. When asked which campaign a Muslim should join, Moe had a very significant answer.
Abu Dawud 14.2477Moe sent an extortion letter to Heracleus, it is informative. It is in Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4380 and LETTER TO HERACLES CAESAR.
Narrated Ibn Hawalah:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: It will turn out that you will be armed troops, one is Syria, one in the Yemen and one in Iraq. Ibn Hawalah said: Choose for me, Apostle of Allah, if I reach that time. He replied: Go to Syria, for it is Allah's chosen land, to which his best servants will be gathered but if you are unwilling, go to your Yemen, and draw water from your tanks, for Allah has on my account taken special charge of Syria and its people.
Islam's attitude is that all land they conquer is Islamic forever. Allah will not allow Kuffar to reconquer it and rule over Muslims. He promised victory to the Muslims, but they fought on the losing side of WW1 and lost the Levant, which Caliph Umar had conquered in 638. Israel regained a tiny fragment of her ancient patrimony, and Muslims immediately attacked with genocidal intent. They attacked again in 1967 and lost the Gaza Strip & West Bank which they seized in 1948. Every condition the Falestinians complain about is a consequence of their attempted genocide & policide.
I could go on, but please note thatAllah's word mandates and sanctifies Jihad. 2:216 tells Muslims that Jihad is ordained for them. 8:39 commands Muslims to make perpetual war upon pagans. 9:29 commands Muslims to make perpetual war upon "people of the book". 61:10-13 describe participation in Jihad as a "commerce" that saves Muslims from "painful torment". Those mandates find confirmation in hadith & Shari'ah.
a) none of this is meant to justify violence in the name of religion – merely to provide perspective, and
b) nowhere have I said “Christianity” here. The Bible is full of blood, injustice and crimes of all sorts, all justified by religion. Even Christ said, “I come with the sword…”, and as a result his heirs gave us the “Christian soldiers” of European fame.
The point: it’s very easy to pick out sections from text, present them out of context and then make sweeping claims about “Islam” while ignoring what Muslims actually do. Likewise it’s easy to grab legal text books and assume that they necessarily reflect actual practice, rather than an abstract ideal.
Everything must be seen in context, and you have to see these texts as Muslims have understood them at different times and in different circumstances. That’s called being fair and reasonable.
But of course, you’re not interested in THAT, are you?
How Muslims have understood those texts is illustrated by Fiqh: rulings by scholars of Islamic law. I direct doubters & dissenters to download FOMIJihad.chm and read the Jihad in Fiqh chapter. How Moe understood those texts is illustrated by the oral traditions of his excellent companions. You can read them at USC-MSI.